WPKG Client and laptop

Post by Richard de Vos
Hello,
I have a question, i want to start using the WPKG Client install because
i love the Delayed Login feature.
But how can i handle laptop users which aren't connected all the time.
When they are out of the office i don't want them to need wait 10
minutes before they can login.

WPKG Client uses standard system methods to connect to remote servers.

A similar problem was discussed a while ago in "WPKG Client 1.0-rc1 has
been released" thread, you may check that for some more info.

Basically, if you have a timeout of 10 minutes, but can't connect to the
server, you will be delayed by about 1 minute if you use IP addresses
(\\10.1.1.1\blah), and about 30 seconds if you use names (\\server\blah).

--
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

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Richard de Vos

2007-08-22 14:09:42 UTC

Post by Richard de Vos
Hello,

Basically, if you have a timeout of 10 minutes, but can't connect to the
server, you will be delayed by about 1 minute if you use IP addresses
(\\10.1.1.1\blah), and about 30 seconds if you use names (\\server\blah).

That is strange because i have a time out of 10 minutes and when i
remove my netwerk cable, i takes 10 minutes before i get my login prompt.

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
<configuration><file>\\wpkg\wpkg\clean.js</file><path-user></path-user><path-password></path-password><exec-user>SYSTEM</exec-user><exec-password></
exec-password><parameters> /synchronize /nonotify /quiet</parameters><silent>YES</silent><pre-action></pre-action><post-action>\\wpkg\wpkg\wpkg-tng.
bat</post-action><show-GUI>YES</show-GUI><logon-delay>10</logon-delay><logon-message-1>WPKG is installing applications and applying settings...</log
on-message-1><logon-message-2>Moment, Please wait, don't restart or power off your computer...</logon-message-2><priority>normal</priority></configu
ration>

Greetings,

Richard

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-08-22 14:22:04 UTC

Post by Richard de Vos
Hello,

That is strange because i have a time out of 10 minutes and when i
remove my netwerk cable, i takes 10 minutes before i get my login prompt.

Was the laptop started with the cable removed?

Richard de Vos

2007-08-22 14:29:30 UTC

Post by Richard de Vos
Hello,

That is strange because i have a time out of 10 minutes and when i
remove my netwerk cable, i takes 10 minutes before i get my login prompt.

Was the laptop started with the cable removed?

Yes i removed te cable before i started the machine so that i can see
how it would work for a user at home or anywhere.

Greetings,

Richard

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-08-22 14:42:01 UTC

Post by Richard de Vos
Hello,

That is strange because i have a time out of 10 minutes and when i
remove my netwerk cable, i takes 10 minutes before i get my login prompt.

Was the laptop started with the cable removed?

Yes i removed te cable before i started the machine so that i can see
how it would work for a user at home or anywhere.

In that case, how long does it take to execute (it will fail, but how
long will it take to fail?) such a command from cmd.exe after you can
finally log in?

net use \\192.168.45.46\share /user:domain\username

Substitute the IP with the correct on, and later, the server name with
the correct one.

Also, it would be interesting to look in the Event Viewer, and to see
how long it took for each step of WPKG service to complete/fail.

Marco Gaiarin

2007-08-27 10:51:22 UTC

Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
Basically, if you have a timeout of 10 minutes, but can't connect to the
server, you will be delayed by about 1 minute if you use IP addresses
(\\10.1.1.1\blah), and about 30 seconds if you use names (\\server\blah).

True, but also i spot this now and them on not permanently connected
machine.

Clearly seems a 'windows/hardware' problem, not a WPKG one, but i need
to fix, or at least circumvent it.

Some ideas?
--
dott. Marco Gaiarin GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia'' http://www.sv.lnf.it/
Polo FVG - Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078 - San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
marco.gaiarin(at)sv.lnf.it tel +39-0434-842711 fax +39-0434-842797

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-08-27 18:24:44 UTC

Post by Marco Gaiarin
Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

True, but also i spot this now and them on not permanently connected
machine.
Clearly seems a 'windows/hardware' problem, not a WPKG one, but i need
to fix, or at least circumvent it.
Some ideas?

I don't know.
I see the issue concerns more users - so perhaps we should add something
like a "laptop mode" to WPKG Client?

Something like that on the "logon delay" page in WPKG Client preferences:

^ Enable laptop mode
___Server address___ Server IP or name

With that explanation when Help button is pressed:

###########

Laptops are not always connected to the local network. If logon delay is
enabled, and the server is not reachable, it may take some time before
the operating system gives up and returns an error.

If we can't reach the server IP or name with a single ICMP packet
(ping), don't delay the user anymore.

Note: if you have a firewall on a server and/or a workstation, make sure
you can ping the server from the workstation, otherwise, enabling this
feature will prevent WPKG from working.

###########

Please feel free to comment.

Dennis Kuhlmeier

2007-08-29 06:40:26 UTC

Hi there,

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
^ Enable laptop mode
___Server address___ Server IP or name
###########
Laptops are not always connected to the local network. If logon delay is
enabled, and the server is not reachable, it may take some time before
the operating system gives up and returns an error.
If we can't reach the server IP or name with a single ICMP packet
(ping), don't delay the user anymore.
Note: if you have a firewall on a server and/or a workstation,

make sure

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
you can ping the server from the workstation, otherwise, enabling this
feature will prevent WPKG from working.
###########
Please feel free to comment.

like that Idea!

Regards,

Dennis
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Dany Chouinard

2007-08-29 12:55:51 UTC

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Hash: SHA1

I don,t think we should relay on ICMP packet since this could be block
at the firewall level. I think it would be preferable to try to open
the tcp port 139. My guess is the initial SYN be enough.

However I would be useless coding that, sorry. I'm just giving my 2 cents.

goodday

Dany CHOUINARD

Post by Dennis Kuhlmeier
Hi there,

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
^ Enable laptop mode
___Server address___ Server IP or name
###########
Laptops are not always connected to the local network. If logon

delay is

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
enabled, and the server is not reachable, it may take some time

before

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
the operating system gives up and returns an error.
If we can't reach the server IP or name with a single ICMP packet
(ping), don't delay the user anymore.
Note: if you have a firewall on a server and/or a workstation,

make sure

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
you can ping the server from the workstation, otherwise, enabling

this

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
feature will prevent WPKG from working.
###########
Please feel free to comment.

like that Idea!
Regards,
Dennis
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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-08-29 18:57:55 UTC

Post by Dany Chouinard
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I don,t think we should relay on ICMP packet since this could be block
at the firewall level. I think it would be preferable to try to open
the tcp port 139. My guess is the initial SYN be enough.
However I would be useless coding that, sorry. I'm just giving my 2 cents.

Good idea.
--
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-08-29 19:15:32 UTC

Post by Marco Gaiarin
Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

Post by Marco Gaiarin
Some ideas?

I don't know.
I see the issue concerns more users - so perhaps we should add something
like a "laptop mode" to WPKG Client?

Mmmh... wait a moment.
We are sure that it is a 'windows' problem, could be also an hardware
+ ethernet adapters does not react well on cable connect/disconnect and
keep some sort of interface configured also if there's no connections.
+ windows see more then one network adapter (a wifi, a firewire, ...),
half configure them and confuse itself
I suppose that if a delay are present using \\server\name, the same
delay could be spotted using ping.
In my opinion we have to at least try to isolate the trouble, for my
site i've post a request in the italian samba mailing list.

All problems lead to one conclusion: we should make WPKG Client in a
way, that it doesn't delay the user unnecessarily. No matter if it's a
hardware, software or any other problem. Computers are for people, not
the other way around. End user (that is, not admin) shouldn't have to
worry about these things.

Hence, the laptop mode idea, disabled by default.

So, let's refactor it a bit:

^ Enable laptop mode

1° ___Server address___ Server IP (preferred) or name

2° Custom command _____________

In 1°, we send a packet to that address, port 139 (or, should it be 445?
I think very old servers can listen only on port 139). If we get
connection refused, or no reply in 3 seconds (3 seconds? enough?), don't
delay anymore, don't execute WPKG.

In 2°, execute a custom script. Obviously, it should be placed on a
local drive (something like %PROGRAMFILES%\wpkg\test-net.bat), but not
necessarily. If the exit code is not 0, don't delay anymore, don't
execute WPKG.
Mode 2° could be useful for roaming users (i.e., we have a VPN
connection with a server, but over a slow dial-up line, so don't attempt
to install any software). Or we have a connection, but to a different
server which only has the same DNS name.

Post by Marco Gaiarin
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B832161&x=11&y=13
could be a webdav syndrome?

No, that's something else.
--
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

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Marco Gaiarin

2007-08-30 10:46:07 UTC

Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
All problems lead to one conclusion: we should make WPKG Client in a
way, that it doesn't delay the user unnecessarily. No matter if it's a
hardware, software or any other problem. Computers are for people, not
the other way around. End user (that is, not admin) shouldn't have to
worry about these things.

Absolutly right.

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
Hence, the laptop mode idea, disabled by default.

I'm not saying that it is a bad idea, only that before doing this i
prefere to try to isolate the trouble to well understand it...

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
In 1°, we send a packet to that address, port 139 (or, should it be 445?
I think very old servers can listen only on port 139). If we get
connection refused, or no reply in 3 seconds (3 seconds? enough?), don't
delay anymore, don't execute WPKG.

Good.

Post by Tomasz Chmielewski
In 2°, execute a custom script. Obviously, it should be placed on a
local drive (something like %PROGRAMFILES%\wpkg\test-net.bat), but not
necessarily. If the exit code is not 0, don't delay anymore, don't
execute WPKG.
Mode 2° could be useful for roaming users (i.e., we have a VPN
connection with a server, but over a slow dial-up line, so don't attempt
to install any software). Or we have a connection, but to a different
server which only has the same DNS name.

Just we are here, consider to add instead a general 'local pre script'
and 'local post script' (as exist pre and post script).
And, of course, check the exit codes of scripts, please both local and
remote. ;)

Post by Marco Gaiarin
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B832161&x=11&y=13

No, that's something else.

Really sure? I give it a try...
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Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia'' http://www.sv.lnf.it/
Polo FVG - Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078 - San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
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Guenael Sanchez - ENS Lyon

2007-09-05 15:00:40 UTC

Post by Marco Gaiarin
Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

True, but also i spot this now and them on not permanently connected
machine.
Clearly seems a 'windows/hardware' problem, not a WPKG one, but i need
to fix, or at least circumvent it.
Some ideas?

I don't know.
I see the issue concerns more users - so perhaps we should add something
like a "laptop mode" to WPKG Client?
^ Enable laptop mode
___Server address___ Server IP or name
###########
Laptops are not always connected to the local network. If logon delay is
enabled, and the server is not reachable, it may take some time before
the operating system gives up and returns an error.
If we can't reach the server IP or name with a single ICMP packet
(ping), don't delay the user anymore.
Note: if you have a firewall on a server and/or a workstation, make sure
you can ping the server from the workstation, otherwise, enabling this
feature will prevent WPKG from working.
###########
Please feel free to comment.

Ok, I give 1big good point to your idea....

I'm fighting with a Dell Laptop and wpkg.

Client is searching infinitely for the wpkg's server and I have to wait
60minutes so the "delay logon" countdown finally end... Plugging in the
network cable is not changing anything (& reboot & so on...)

I'm about to throw a brand new laptop through the hall :D

GS

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-09-05 15:05:54 UTC

Post by Guenael Sanchez - ENS Lyon

Post by Marco Gaiarin
Mandi! Tomasz Chmielewski
In chel di` si favelave...

True, but also i spot this now and them on not permanently connected
machine.
Clearly seems a 'windows/hardware' problem, not a WPKG one, but i need
to fix, or at least circumvent it.
Some ideas?

Start in the emergency mode, or how is it called - if you have
administrative privileges.

Would be interesting to know why such a long delay happens, though?
Anything in logs?
--
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org

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Tomasz Chmielewski

2007-09-05 15:20:18 UTC

Post by Guenael Sanchez - ENS Lyon